“I just want to make sure we don’t make a complicated situation more complicated,” Mayor Dan Toland said. “Nothing we do is going to be perfect, that’s for sure.” Toland’s comments came during a special council meeting held August 18, where City Administrator Scot Simpson was seeking to gauge council feedback and preference for virtual meeting protocol.

The River Falls Common Council met from varied and remote locations, while down at City Hall sound man Jon Smits manned the logistics of it all. Following the Pledge of Allegiance and roll call, it was straight into council business, no public comment being provided for at the special meeting session. For a meeting with just two main agenda items, it went longer than expected. Starting things out was City Administrator Scot Simpson.

“We’ve had some questions about agenda setting and also speaking on behalf of the council,” he said, saying that the bylaws weren’t clear when he had reviewed them of how to get items on the agenda, but there was more.

“The feedback I’ve received one-on-one is that the council is pretty satisfied with things how are going,” he said of meeting technology like the iPad for Cisco Webex. Council member Sean Downing had a concern though.

“If you go on YouTube and try listening to our meetings, you’ll notice not every council member is heard properly,” he said, adding, “we need to do better.” Downing said that it was important to figure out the issue so that when people watched those videos “they know how everybody voted,” Downing said. Later on in a discussion of how the public viewed things, sound technician Jon Smits chimed in.

“Do you mind if I jump in, Scot?” he asked the City Administrator, getting the go ahead. The Council Chamber was like Hollywood Squares, but what was streamed out to YouTube was somewhat different.

“So the streaming view is a little different than what we have here in the Council Chambers,” Smit said. Morrissette asked about electronic simultaneous polling as a way to simplify votes, but it became apparent that this carried problems with it.

“The thing we have with the polling was that it opened up the polling for everybody,” Smit said, not just council members, and required more fine tuning to be workable. Regarding public comment, requiring sign-up for public comment by a certain time prior to the meeting was also discussed. Council member Hal Watson brought up one scenario.

“If Jon—if there’s a public comment period, you know, maybe before the meeting or just before the meeting the mayor could say if anyone has public comment please respond to the poll,” he suggested as a way. Simpson had a caution.

“We’ve been fortunate not to have ZOOM bombing,” he said of council meetings, cautioning that once the internet microphone was turned on, speakers could then get “their thirty seconds of fame or infamy, whatever that might be.” Sound technician Jon Smit said that it was possible, but not unmanageable.

“So yes, there is that sort of potential for ZOOM bombing,” he said, but with a delay the obnoxious could be simply muted. Morrissette meanwhile, said that meeting practices should mirror those pre-COVID as much as possible.

“I believe public comment is vital to the citizens,” he said. “I’m not saying anything that I think anyone would disagree with.” Four p.m. was too rigid though, Morrissette said. “We don’t get enough public comment as it is,” he said, favoring an approach similar to council member Watson.

“I just want to make sure we don’t make a complicated situation more complicated,” Toland said. “Nothing we do is going to be perfect, that’s for sure.” Later on, Watson had a threshold for those wishing to make public comment.

“I think if people want to make a comment they need to show up at the meeting,” he said, saying that citizens could email council members “all they want” but that these shouldn’t be read and that the council would regret going down such a path. Shifting to talk of public comment area, the prospect of using the training room for other purposes.

“As I said, I’ve been in other places where there isn’t that flexibility,” Simpson said. “The council’s been there since 1927 and that’s where the meeting’s gonna be,” he smiled. Council member Morrisette broke into the discussion next.

“I hate to pull an Al Haig here,” he said referencing a famous White House exchange from March 30, 1980 before sudden technology issues intervened. Simpson used the interlude to tally notes thus far, then went on. The City Administrator, he noted, “shall be in charge of coordinating the preparation and publishing of the agenda,” normally by 5 p.m. on the Thursday prior to a Tuesday council meeting. In theory then, the Administrator would put whatever a council member wanted on the agenda. Was Thursday at 5 p.m. still adequate?

“Yes,” Odeen said. “It gives me several days to read it.” Other council members mirrored the observation, but Watson voiced a caution.

“The 5 p.m. on Thursdays is certainly good enough for me,” he said. “For the public, I think it can be difficult.” If someone really cared about something on the agenda, Thursday wasn’t a lot of time to coordinate and get people down to City Hall. “I’ve encountered that a few times,” Watson said. Downing agreed.

“Even a day would improve that process,” he said of meeting notice. Toland made note that the agenda was in the paper on Wednesday, while Simpson said it was sent the week before.

“Most actions items that are in the packet aren’t just going to be voted on and done,” he said, saying there was a lead up time to the whole process. There were exceptions though, he noted. Downing asked if the council “could get the minutes sooner” to communicate better and more effectively with the city. Simpson said he was cautious of giving council members the impression they had individual editing authority.

“I want to be careful about giving the Council any idea that they have individual editing authority on the minutes,” he said. “Best practice as far as I’m concerned, is the Clerk takes the minutes as best they’re able too,” and later have the minutes amended for technical or spelling errors.

“At the meeting,” Toland said.

“At the meeting,” Simpson confirmed. Later on the order of priority was made clear.

“Sixty-two eleven (62.11) in the state statutes is the only thing right now that can compel a meeting—and that’s the mayor.” Simpson went on to refer to the city council as above the Adminstrator in terms of position. Did the council want something different?

“Does the council want to change ‘may’ to ‘shall’?” he asked of the permission-imperative distinction. No individual council member currently had the power to unilaterally put something on the agenda.

One council member noted that Robert’s Rules of Order seemed to be used by the council a lot, and allowed for an agenda change in a meeting.

“That is of course in conflict with the Wisconsin Open Meetings Law,” they noted, later raising ethical concerns about the council’s behavior. Council member Odeen had some input of her own.

“Robert’s Rules of Order is…a lowest common denominator,” she said, adding that city and state statutes were the ultimate rule. Simpson had more input on local Wisconsin law.

“Keep in mind that the Mayor—the Mayor’s position in Wisconsin is intended to have some independent power and extraordinary powers, if you will. But then the Administrator is supposed to work on all of your behalves, so that’s what I try to do,” he said. Then it was into public communications by council.

“Current bylaws have the idea that statements by council members on behalf of the mayor, council, or city are discouraged,” Simpson said. “The only specific language in there are “council members are discouraged from submitting letters to the editor,” he said, saying it had come up “quite a bit” during his time in River Falls. Bad idea, Simpson said.

“I’ve talked most of them off of this, because of this policy,” he said. “Even though you may think you’ve Clark Kented into your personal persona, people still associate you—in other words, you cannot—you don’t get to be just average Joe.” After one council member then suggested that the city have its official newspaper put language in that clarified such letters as the council member’s own opinion. Simpson raised an issue with this.

“The reason the council would have policies about this is that we may not direct the press on how they cover us,” he said. “That’s protected speech for them. We as a council would need to get our act together.” The member voicing their opinion said that impacting press freedom hadn’t been their intent in suggesting such a thing. Morrissette had comments of his own.

“I think the transition of the paper to a more regional paper has made them a little less impactful as far as letters to the editor,” he said. “Any time I am approached by a member of the media you have to assume right away that you’re on the record.”

With Simpson collecting notes but no votes taken, before long the meeting was over.